Avatar local neck stretching on some setups
Kung
I personally don't have this issue but have been observing discord discussion on it. It seems on some setups the head is 100% locked to the view point and if there's any gap between what the IK can make up for, the neck will stretch.
Also if users with this issue calibrate and then change "user real height" the new off-scale binding point for head vs hip will cause the neck to stretch rather than the old/expected behavior of the head shifting away from the true viewpoint.
It was speculated in discord that this issue might depend on specific hardware being used. It might be helpful if other users comment here to record their setup (hmd, controllers & trackers) and if they do or don't experience the issue.
I'll start: Vive + wireless adapter + knuckles DV + htc 2018 trackers x3. I don't experience the issue with this setup
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TotallyUnInvisable
I also had this problem happen to me.
I normally use the Valve Index HMD, Index Controllers and 3x Vive 3.0 trackers without experiencing any problems of neck stretching.
But due to multiple RMA's I needed to use other options which experienced the neck stretch issue,
So I had multiple setups experiencing this and the setups were as follows,
Setup 1:
Valve Index HMD, Vive Pro Controllers 2018, 3x Vive 3.0 trackers.
Setup 2:
Oculus rift CV1, Oculus CV1 Controllers, 3x Vive 3.0 trackers.
I asked my friends if they also saw the neck stretch when I played around with my hip tracker but they said that my head was moving up and down when using those 2 setups.
I had it happen to all of the avatars that I used that were configured as humanoid, also SDK 2 or 3 also didn't matter.
I have talked with some people about it but seems to be a Local IK / Network IK solving problem.
It looks like the Network IK prioritizes the tracking from the hip, while the Local IK seems to prioritise the tracking from the head when using those setups and thus seeming to cause the neck stretch issue.
It also looks like when Valve Index controllers and FBT are being used that it starts to prioritise the tracking from the hip and thus look 1 on 1 as the Network IK and what other people see according to TrippingPC from the KinectToVR project.
Maybe a possible solution might be to prioritise the tracking from the hip for the local IK when FBT is being used so it looks 1 on 1 to what other people are seeing.
Franada
VRChat IK be like
Julian Astrum
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community You previously said this could be because of modified clients. This is your stock vrchat, latest update. Zero mods, zero anything. I am using a quest 2 and playspace calibrator (steam app) to use vive trackers. If i slouch my body is fine, as in the last image. If i stand up straight it is like the first 3.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Julian Astrum: Nope, this is almost certainly due to some hybrid FBT setups and some older hardware causing issues with the wrong tracking model being set up. We have some leads on the issue but need to find time to hunt for the bug/repro/find a fix/implement/QA/etc.
Admiral_Loli
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: no, this is because the spine, chest and neck bones are able to move around. But here's the catch, This happens with any setup, UNLESS you use index controllers. if you want fix the the squash and stretch issue, just make sure the bones are NOT able to move position. This also solves a lot of other issues, because bone position doesn't get transferred over the network. So your head/hand position is off locally compared to other people, that are head patting you a few inches above your head...
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Admiral_Loli: So this happens with Vive controllers? Oculus?
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
To be clear, this is not the same bug as the "FBT offset". This is the "gumby" problem-- they're separate (but neighborly) bugs.
Julian Astrum
Admiral_Loli: okay then, how/why are these bones allowed to move? this is my own model i have access to the files of, which is can verify the bones all have the "connected" checkbox checked, so why are they moving away from each other?
Any help there, Tupper - VRChat Head of Community ?
Admiral_Loli
Julian Astrum: "why?" It's because of how vrchat devs configured Final IK. and that's not something we can change. I'm sure it's easy for them to disable/change that option though.
Julian Astrum
Admiral_Loli: Exactly, they need to fix it. If you believe it cannot be fixed, then i point you to the "iktweaks" mod. It fixes pretty much all of the skeleton. Oh yeah, it does so through finalIK
Julian Astrum
Julian Astrum
𝒮undere
I've had this same problem on Rift CV1 and recently got the Quest 2 + Virtual Desktop + SteamVR + Kinect FBT Still having same problem... I tried reinstalling game, but that did not work. Tried it on Owl Girl and A lot of other avatars, Seems to have same problem on all. Not sure what to do. It seems to only happen when I have fbt on though.
Julian Astrum
𝒮undere: sorry to say but that particular issue is likely the kinect. there's quite a delay in its tracking compared to vive trackers
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
This isn't the only post on this issue, but I've been trying desperately to get information on this issue.
If you have the "neck stretch" issue-- as in, you move your head and your neck stretches unnaturally, NO OTHER ISSUE-- please comment in this thread with:
- What headset do you use?
- What controllers do you use?
- Are you using Steam or Oculus?
- Are you using FBT?
- If you are using FBT, what tracking solution are you using?
- What VR "support software" do you have installed? (Advanced OpenVR Settings, playspace mover, tracking space matching, etc etc)
- Does this only happen on certain avatars?
- If so, do those avatars share any technical details (only AV2, only AV3, only non-human proportions, etc)
- Do you have any "rig hacks" in use?
Thanks in advance!
p.s. If you can record a video of the issue PLEASE DO SO and post it here along with the rest of the above information. Wildly useful. Bonus points for including an avatar ID, if you can.
Catsix
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community:
Headset: Rift CV1
Controllers: CV1 Touch
Platform: Steam
FBT: Yes
Which: Hybrid Rift + Vive Trackers
Software: Advanced settings + playspace mover
Which Avatars: All that I could test. My own and public ones that didnt have righacks
Avatar Details: AV2
Rig Hacks: None.
This happened on both my own and on public avatars(like the Low Poly Kons that you see hoppin around)
But as mentioned since I got the Index this is completely gone.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Catsix: Thanks, that's good info. So far, we're thinking this happens with some setups in SteamVR. I've tested it in 3pt Quest2 + Virtual Desktop + SteamVR and did not experience it.
Maybe some setups don't have issues until you add in FBT?
Did you ever test with your Rift CV1 but not using trackers?
Catsix
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community:
I was barely in 3p however I didnt notice it. With your avatar now going up in the air if you go too far up in playspace I dont think theres a reason for it to happen anyway, as as far as I can tell the Neck stretching in essence is just keeping the Head at the HMD and the Hip at the hip tracker 100% of the time, the stretching making up for the the difference in distance between irl and Avatar that the IK cant solve otherwise.
However I do remember from when my trackers died that there is a limit of how much the neck will stretch. Not sure if that helps.
Also I do feel that if it was happening in 3p CV1 then we'd prob hear more about it than we do now.
Therefore Im pretty sure it only happens in FBT as theres no need to in 3p.
Julian Astrum
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community:
What headset do you use? Oculus quest + vive trackers (hybrid)
What controllers do you use? Oculus quest 2 touch controllers
Are you using Steam or Oculus? Steam PC-version
Are you using FBT? Yes
If you are using FBT, what tracking solution are you using? Hybrid (playspace calibrator)
What VR "support software" do you have installed? (Advanced OpenVR Settings, playspace mover, tracking space matching, etc etc) ovr advance settings, playspace calibrator
Does this only happen on certain avatars? I notice it mostly on my roboneko avatar
If so, do those avatars share any technical details (only AV2, only AV3, only non-human proportions, etc)
Do you have any "rig hacks" in use? No. I followed kung's video to fix the spine for fbt, and that is it. the current video.
Catsix
Afaik the stretching was intended according to the patch notes if i read that correctly.
However it is weird that its only happening on certain hardware.
On the Rift with vive Trackers I had it, the second I switched to the Index it stopped.
And why is this still a thing after 2 months with several people reporting on it.
Nemuray
My problem (when i sit down)
-vive wands
-fbt 2018
Kally Ö_Ö
Nemuray: same for me, siting doing with vive stretches my neck drastically.
Maypie
My setup: Rift+vive hybrid this issue needs to be adressed.
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