Do not require age verifcation for gated content
VRD
In both the original video and in the recent forum post you said you were likely to require age verification for gated content, e.g sexually suggestive avatars.
Since most avatars in this game are atleast somewhat sexually suggestive, this will either create an immense pressure on people to hand over their ID to a third-party company (which is a horrible idea from a privacy standpoint). Or to just completely ignore the content gating system entirely.
I foresee that people will just stop labeling their avatars as NSFW if you go through with this, rendering the content gating system useless.
It will also create alot of social problems, where friends wont be able to see eachother's avatars, because some friends are more privacy conscious then others.
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BadNicc
If people start not using tags to bypass the age gate, they're self reporting as being kinda weird, honestly. I understand people have privacy concerns or whatever reasons to not want to ID verify but it will be a great day when people can join a public world in their normal avatar they have tagged as sexual content and not have to change out because they don't want a 14 year old running around staring at them because they have a tight fitting dress on. If adults miss out on a few avatars in order to make the platform safer for the younger people that VRC wants to have on it, then so be it.
TheCreationKing
I agree, with additional notes. (edit, by agreeing, I mean don't require this YET)
I don't think that verifying your age via ID is a bad thing for an account tag, in fact it would stop many groups from getting your ID and is probably safer than what many people do already. It's so much safer than some discord group. Even if the worries people have about the company being used is valid.
I'm never sending my ID to any company for any little game that I play. It doesn't matter if it's VRChat, which I've spent nearly every day of my life on for years.
My physical person is one I keep separate from my online self as much as I can. And I'm ok with being excluded from groups and access to even content because of that.
I don't like nsfw content. I'm Ace (asexual), not just Ace but extremely sex repulsed Ace. I turned off content gating. Why? Because the content itself isn't what repulses me.
It's the people who will place me, or the environment I'm in, or the people around me, as sexual in nature. It's the person who includes me in that sort of conversation. And far worse, the people who will try to make me oblivious to how they're viewing or treating me while doing it.
If I have to send my government ID to see the content gated avatars in front of me in VRChat, I'm never going to publics again. I require situational AWARENESS as a BASELINE for being ok with being in public, and that should not conflict with my desire to be anonymous online.
VRChat has been catering to a trend of edgy adults who hate kids, people who will have a bunch of nsfw groups and represent them as their banner. And people who think that making a group 18+ should be the standard for the "people who like parrots!" group.
As someone who believes others' self expression is more important than my personal tastes, I'd normally leave these people with their options.
But if they add ID verification to my ability to understand my environment, I can't even moderate on behalf of the people around me who aren't 18+.
(added) Before tying to content gating, the necessary precautions must be made FIRST. Addressing the concerns of the people who would bypass this system if they don't like it (such as alternate ID companies), and locking where content gated content can be used (https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/disallow-content-labeled-avatars-in-public-instances)
All this need to be dealt with BEFORE pushing another update like with EAC.
Chirping_Cat
TheCreationKing This really overlooks the most likely implementation scenario.
You’re not going to have situations where some people can see adult content and others can’t while standing side by side in the same world, minors over hearing discussion about things they can't see—that doesn’t pass the logic test, now does it?
What’s far more likely to happen is:
A) The introduction of additional ways to tag adult-oriented content (e.g., stickers, prints, etc.).
B) Adult-oriented content can only be uploaded by verified adults.
C) Adult-oriented content can only be used in 18+ verified instances.
Hence this really negates your concern, and to that end, this feedback post is extremely premature.
The only exception to the above would be Groups and Group banners. I’m not sure how VRChat will handle that, but I’d like to think they’ll allow adult-oriented groups to be tagged and globally hidden from non-verified players.
And honestly, that’s not a bad thing. I’m tired of seeing minors representing groups like ‘Breedable’ and arguing for anything less than restricting these groups from non age-verified users boils down to one of two positions:
A) Those groups shouldn’t be on the platform at all, or
B) It’s acceptable for minors to see and represent such groups.
I strongly oppose both.
TheCreationKing
Chirping_Cat Your first paragraph assumes this doesn't happen, but it does. I know because I HAVE 10k hours in VRChat. So, it unfortunately does pass the logic test, because I've seen it.
Your implementation list, yeah. It's perfect. Which is why I wish that's how VRChat operated. But VRChat has a tendency to push updates in bare minimum steps.
Groups were bare bones and very unmoderated (still are in my opinion).
The Creator Economy only had subscriptions.
EAC was pushed immediately before even discussing the QOL update.
The first content gated update used your initial account age info which was wrong for a lot of people (They even rolled back the age check requirement BECAUSE of this.)
The Steam Input 2.0 update ruined the controls for so many people (even people I knew) so badly they just stopped playing until it was fixed.
VRChat does this bare minimum "We'll fix it later" attitude unbelievably often, and I wish it weren't true because I do trust VRChat to fix it. Eventually. But eventually isn't soon enough.
I agree that if implemented in a way which was reasonable, and pushed these in a way where there was as little risk of adult content in public as possible, it'd be perfect.
Your ideal implementation of age content is what I too wish for. But I've been in VRChat long enough to know how and why people would bypass this system if it's not done right the first time. And I know the various times it's already happened.
That's why I'm going to the canny and voicing my concerns, knowing even if they do get implemented it will likely be after a problem period has already arised. To be clear, my intent in agreeing to this suggestion is "yet", don't implement this yet.
Chirping_Cat
Being a responsible adult means recognising that you have choices and ensuring those choices don’t put others—especially minors—at risk. Interacting with adult-oriented content on VRChat is a choice. You can engage with it or avoid it entirely. However, if you choose to engage, you carry a moral responsibility to ensure minors are not exposed to that content, either directly or indirectly, to the extent that is reasonable. Is age verification reasonable? Yes it is, and VRChat isn't the first platform nor the last to implement it.
Choosing personal comfort or avoiding verification over the safety of minors is indefensible. If you’re unwilling to comply with age verification, the simplest solution is to avoid adult-oriented content altogether or consider using a different platform.
Finally, concerns about removing content tags are misplaced. Tags are visible for a reason: to clearly identify content for appropriate audiences. Untagged adult content is equally visible and raises very serious red flags. Those responsible could face questioning by players, reports to Trust & Safety, social media backlash, or even escalation to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) for appearing to deliberately expose minors to adult material. Is that really a risk worth taking just to avoid verifying? No.
TheCreationKing
Chirping_Cat I actually agree with this in many ways, except for one.n
There's a fundamental rule about privacy and safety that this misses, you always should priorities your own protection before you can protect others. The concerns over people's personal info being leaked should always be considered a valid concern.
But I entirely agree regarding those who choose to engage in adult content, they SHOULD be the responsible party.
Let's say I were to want to engage in adult content. First, as an adult who moderates my persona heavily as I DO keep the children in my community safe, would never use my main account. It's tied to me as a creator, and by relation the people who look up to me. I would use an alt. This already means I wouldn't be able to age verify by VRChat's rules.
Because to me, that seems only reasonable way to partake; as a creator, as a human, as an adult.
But there's a reason I still agree with this post, I don't choose to engage in adult content.
But I've still disabled the content gate, why? Because I'm (read above comment). VRChat then imposes I either remain unaware of my surroundings, something that gives me not only anxiety but full on nausea due to my aversion, or that I remove my anonymity. That shouldn't be considered the same as a "choice to engage in adult content."
I'd also be completely fine with an alternative where adult marked avatars are ONLY allowed in an invite/adult-invite-only instance, as I think that should be the default anyways. It's the only place where consent is 100% mandatory in the bringing in or out of new people. But no one should ever be able be in a PUBLIC world in an adult only avatar.
No one would go nude outside in the real world just because they knew kids would see them with clothes on. I think it should be fairly obvious as to why.
And just because I am an adult doesn't mean I shouldn't expect the same bare minimum level of respect.
Chirping_Cat
TheCreationKing: “You always should prioritise your own protection before you can protect others.”
Did you just suggest that your personal aversion to age verification and the fear mongering around it, takes precedence over the protection of minors? I’m sorry, but society fundamentally disagrees with that stance, and frankly, I think it’s a disgraceful position to take.
While I’m not discounting the legitimate concerns of others, these need to be weighed against the social and personal harms caused by exposing minors to sexual content. I don’t think you’ve done that here.
You’re essentially arguing that a potential risk to you personally—one that may never even eventuate—justifies taking no action on an issue that is well-documented to cause real harm to minors and is occurring on the platform every single day... That we shouldn't put known adult content behind a robust and reliable age-gate.
That’s an illogical position to take.
TheCreationKing
Chirping_Cat Obviously I don't think that it's ever an excuse to put minors at risk, that's the entire meaning behind the saying. Why? Because people would rather bypass a system they don't like than to follow it when they don't like it. This isn't about the responsible adults, it's about everyone else. The point, like the meaning of the quote, is that following certain steps first, even if they seem selfish, has a safer outcome.
People will bypass this system just like how people modded VRChat before EAC, because VRChat failed to include accessibility settings that were a basic requirement for many people to actually play the game. Had they done the QOL update prior to the push of EAC, they would have had far less outrage by the community.
I've never been against an age requirement, nor verification methods, but it needs to be done right as it's getting done or else it will be bypassed. And the last thing we want is un-gated content again like before it was allowed at all.
That's the entire point of the saying. You are noble for wanting to help other passengers of a crashing plane, and I don't disrespect the people who would. But you will 'help more people if you protect yourself.'
I'm sorry if that meaning wasn't clear in my previous message, I had only just awoken and assumed I wrote in more context than I had. I had at the same time been reading, upvoting, and replying to posts like this one (https://feedback.vrchat.com/feature-requests/p/disallow-content-labeled-avatars-in-public-instances)
I had even misread the original post and thought it took a more 'unintended consequences' analytical tone than it seemed to in hindsight.
¡Şħřøøm¡Buññŷ¡
What if your over the age of 18 but you just don’t have a id what do I do?
Chirping_Cat
¡Şħřøøm¡Buññŷ¡ Get an ID. It's a basic requirement of life.
Eslar
¡Şħřøøm¡Buññŷ¡ use your drivers licence or passport. in any western country you are supposed to have at least one of theose 3 documents and if not.
better get one before you get in a normal traffic stop or needing anything important done.
that is where you NEED them and usually wating a few weeks to get them is not an option.
Cayenne-Pepper
People should be allowed to make avatars/worlds that are not accessible by people who haven't verified.
Antibollaアンティー
There are some countries where players can't use this age verifcation, and if the mainland Chinese ids can't be verified, (I don't think the number of Chinese players will be a minority of the total number of players) you can foresee that a large number of avatars won't be tagged in the future
西瓜仁watermelon
Antibollaアンティー <3
Chirping_Cat
Antibollaアンティー This is premature. Let's wait for evidence of actual issues before we say it won't work.
Further, people uploading untagged avatars will just be dealt with according to community guidelines and societal standards. It's not something I'd be contemplating.
Antibollaアンティー
Chirping_CatSome people have tried mainland China ID , it doesn't work.
Chirping_Cat
Antibollaアンティー This seems like a recurring issue for people in those regions, and I sympathise with their challenges. However, I don’t think it’s entirely fair to place blame on Persona or VRChat for these shortcomings. Let’s be real: some nations simply lack the infrastructure, policies or systems to support robust age verification processes. That said, this shouldn’t be used as an argument against implementing age verification systems or as a justification for granting access to adult-oriented content without proper verification. That just wouldn't make any sense.
That aside, can we start by listing the countries affected? I’d prefer to dive into the specifics for a more informed discussion.
Antibollaアンティー
Chirping_Cat linkedin and roblox persona age verification can use mainland Chinese ids , only vrc can't.
So it's not mainland Chinese ids can't be verified, it's just vrc officials choose to ignore Chinese players. Hopefully they will fix this.
MidnightWolfFox
Alot of my friends and I are going to be giving ChilloutVR and Resonite a spin in the near future. ChilloutVR does the 18+ DLC in a brilliant way: Linking it to your steam account. No ID required.
It's sad that it is easier now to buy/play an M-Rated game, Watch an R rated movie, or even access porn; than it will be to play vrchat. The whole system sounds like a pain.
Tsukare
CVR's method doesn't pass muster for many jurisdictions -- Germany (where they're based out of) included. In those places, you simply cannot access R18 content on Steam, CVR's 18+ DLC included - nevermind that Steam isn't a requirement to play VRChat.
Oculus does do their own age verification as well, but I don't know if it exposes it to developers anywhere except the store... Oculus + Steam covers the vast majority of the playerbase, though.
It'd be a slick trick to be able to do age verification primarily via Steam/Oculus, with a fallback to a third party verifier like Persona if unable due to platform or jurisdiction... It would probably ultimately cost VRC less too, compared to paying Persona each user verified.
lackofbindings
If they go forward with the current plan to use Persona I will not be verifying my ID my them. Thus in order to use the platform I would be forced to remove any current content gating tags from even my own content or I would not be able to see it. I think you can extrapolate how this will be a net negative for moderation on the platform.
Oh and let me be clear that I believe age verification in conjunction with content gating could have been a really great thing for vrchat (maybe even eventually allowing true nsfw if gated correctly). But instead we just got a data harvesting scheme.
Chirping_Cat
lackofbindings No one is telling you to remove your adult content tags. You’re making that argument because you’re being immature, selfish, and—frankly—potentially predatory. I say that solely because you’re willing to risk exposing minors to such content when far better options exist, all because you feel that the personal risk of verifying outweighs the need to protect minors.
For people like you, who are exercising their right not to verify, there are two non-creepy, non-selfish positions:
A) Don’t upload or interact with adult-oriented content.
B) Play on a different platform alongside others who share your views.
Let me be absolutely clear: no one is forcing you to upload untagged adult content. Doing so, while fully aware of the potential consequences to minors’ safety, only highlights the extent of your moral bankruptcy.
lackofbindings
Chirping_Cat Have fun having your face and personal info used to train AI models dude.
Chirping_Cat
lackofbindings I’m not worried about the allegations against Persona. I’ve written extensively about this, including the fact that no adverse findings of fact have been made regarding the claims' veracity. (The first link you provided is just a ruling that the dispute must go to court rather than arbitration—it doesn’t address whether the claims are true.) Plus, the laws in question only apply to Illinois residents, so they wouldn’t affect me anyway.
Even if all of this were true, I’m completely fine with Persona partnering with an AI firm to create models that estimate age using my images and others’. Why? Because it doesn’t harm anyone. How does it harm you? Did AI shrink your brain or other body parts? Did your mortgage increase? Was your firstborn cursed with three eyes? Did leprechauns nick your car? No.
Training an algorithm to serve a social and commercial purpose, especially ones that just estimate age or detect deep-fakes, doesn’t harm anyone. Those claiming otherwise are just manufacturing outrage.
The reality is that our likenesses are photographed and recorded all the time, and we routinely share personal information without giving it a second thought. I’m not fussed about this, even with the so-called "AI boogeyman" people like to fearmonger about.
That aside, you lost all credibility when you openly admitted you’d deliberately upload adult-oriented avatars without proper tags, knowingly risking exposure to minors and unverified individuals. Your behaviour is unacceptable — Get lost.
Dishiwashi
The only reason the vrc Devs are adding something like this is legal reason, cus too many "things" or "incident" have happened between kids and adults and it's noticed over the media.
It's not because of the 18+ content that's on vrchat, they could easily solve that problem by just making the games age rating 18+.
Look at it this way, kids play GTA 5, that has all the adults stuff vrchat has, only difference is kids "interacting & socialising" with adults.
So apparently making worlds, labeling accounts and avatars 18+ will solve this? Nopes.
No one is going to make a public 18+ world ever, all public's will still be normal, meaning kids and adults will still mix together. No one is gonna label themselves 18+ and people already don't put 18+ labels on their models.
The only reason ppl might want to age verify is so they can join private events or friends who have put the restriction on. Otherwise, it's not gonna happen.
(Unless they somehow make it mandatory to verify your age, I can't see this benefiting their intentions of age verifying and just cause more problems. Just make the games age limit 18+ and stop worrying orrrrr make a 18+ only version of vrchat which you HAVE to age verify to even play the game. This way it's ONLY adults in the game. But this also still doesn't stop adults being in the kids version, see my point as it being a problem they can't solve)
MidnightWolfFox
Dishiwashi They did say that in the future (I'm guessing mid to late 2025) that all new accounts being opened for vrchat WILL REQUIRE age verification. They may even flip their promise around and require us that have an account to verify.
Again, I'm guessing early 2026 it will be mandatory for all. I feel confident because in early 2023; I predicted age verification coming; I just had no idea how much of an intrusive pain vrchat's version was going to be!
GotoFinal
MidnightWolfFox They cant require age verification from everyone... as they want to remain 13+ game for all the mobile money.
And there isn't really any system to verify age of children.
Dishiwashi
MidnightWolfFox exactually what GotoFinal said, they can't "Force" you to age verify as the games official rating is 13+ also, that would mean yee, any children with an account already, would have their account locked because they can't verify, which at that point just make the game an 18+
like that would be crazy, so in 2016 its mandatory of you to verify you are 18+ for a game thats 13+ ??? logic where? I'm amazed they haven't been forced to changes to games age ratting for years, as they literally allow NSFW content (in the avatar upload, select NSFW) like what? your checking a box, which is to say your content is not suitable for the games 13+ age rating, yet we will allow you to? as long as its labelled?
Chirping_Cat
Dishiwashi The majority of adults in VRChat seem to agree: they can’t wait for spaces without minors. Many are literally rejoicing at the idea. Sure, there are skeptics, but most of them fall into two camps:
A) Kids masquerading as adults, or
B) Conspiracy theorists with tinfoil hats, unwilling to see the bigger picture.
Antibollaアンティー
Chirping_CatThere are a large number of players in regions where persona age verification does not work
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ
I believe they going to implement that anyways, like we or not.
Because of strict iOS platform rules and general "soy" trends.
Now I feel like this was a whole point of verification.
Like to hold a can of virtual beer? Papers, please.
So, I guess we need a compromise: https://feedback.vrchat.com/age-verification/p/feature-request-expose-verification-status-and-gating-options-to-avatars-and-wor
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