bd_ The 3x blendshape issue is caused by having additive layers with WD off. The reason it became so prevalent is because VRC introduced a default WD off additive controller for all avatars unless you explicitly clear it (vrc_AvatarV3IdleLayer).

Removing this controller resolves the blendshape multiplication issue in most cases, but it can also be resolved by setting the additive layers to WD on (similar to direct blendtrees). Interestingly, setting additive layers to WD on seems to have no detrimental effects and does not cause the typical mixed WD bugs.

SenkyDragon Interesting. If anything then, the VRCSDK should call out that kind of dangerous combination I guess?

Leave it to a more advanced user to use a nonstandard workflow on personal models. If you want to distribute, then adhere to standard workflows for the end-user's sake instead of blaming VRC that you have additional support to dish out.

Saigo honestly, standards aren't imposed, it's a thing that the colletive community just follows, and right now, 90% or more are on the WD ON boat, and for very good reasons too, not only wc off leads to a ton of bugs that you have to work around as described by https://vrcfury.com/technical/wd

wd on it's generally easier and leads to a more predictable and consistend behaviour, aside of halving the amount of animations you would need with wd off

lastly, blendtrees, in WD OFF workflow you are forced to mix WD and use blendtrees with WD ON, because blendtress work A LOT differently (especially with blendshapes) on WD OFF, the behaviour you expect from a blend tree is consistent only if the blend tree itself is wd on, try turning it off and see your avatar blendshapes shoot to above and beyond as they additively add up to infinity and -infinity

so from my prespective, it's just vrchat being stubborn on a workflow that is actually worse and less user friendly than the community estabilshed one

Mass1milian0 You can agree that hard limits are a bad thing in the context of VRC, right? So, of course they aren't imposing a standard.

I'm well aware of the many bugs people apparently encounter. Fortunately, I don't encounter them myself, running on WD Off. I also don't adhere to their specifications exactly. But I don't distribute, so I don't need to. But yes, no issues on WD Off at all on my end.

As mentioned in my own reply, advanced users can certainly take the initiative to do things their own way. But you can hopefully grasp that mixing WD settings isn't a good idea. It actually doesn't matter if a standard is considered subjectively worse if the standard is set for a reason.

VRC has enough to debug without creators causing their own problems by ignoring recommendations. You have a standard so that things can be predictable and can be easily addressed. Working outside that standard is only complicating things. If VRC decides WD On is the new standard, then I would suggest everyone use WD On. But since they set the standard to WD Off, ignoring that and creating your own problems isn't on them to address, I would think.

Saigo I'm not suggesting that WD Off be abandoned as the standard. I'm suggesting that this warning should be more finely targeted to the actual creators of avatars, rather than the end users who don't have much control over the process and are just trying to make their upload work. If I had to guess, there are a /lot/ more of the latter than the former.

SenkyDragon That's ultimately endorsing unrecommended behavior and perpetuating what is the actual problem though, don't you think?

As someone with weight in a community, I would push for a better outcome than that, I would think. I understand feeling inconvenienced by having to adhere to a standard that you do not prefer when it comes to distribution to the end-user, but this isn't going to address the overarching underlying issue; the perpetuation of an unrecommended workflow complicating things for the end-user.

Saigo I disagree, a warning like this should not exist because why should VRChat care about WD on? WD on does not hurt performance much it actually improves it + fixes issues like having the avatar halfway below the ground because a few animations require WD on forcing the entire avatar to be set to WD on. The real warning be "This avatar has mixed items with WD off and WD on. Consider forcing everything to be WD on for sake of performance and to prevent bugs. For more information check out: https://vrcfury.com/technical/wd". Which is funny because VRCFury just that AND has a component one can use that will "Fix write defaults." that 100% of the time also fixes all the bugs one would have in their avatars.

VexaMoonlight I've already mentioned that they care because using multiple different workflows that are unrecommended pushes support and debug inquiries onto more than just the creators that refuse to adhere to a set standard.

Also, I've already mentioned that I have no bugs on WD Off whatsoever. I would more readily attribute the cause of bugs on WD Off to a lack of experience than on WD Off itself. There are plenty of gripes I have with VRCFury as a tool, so we're comparing apples to oranges.

VRCFury is not the VRCSDK nor is it the standard nor should it be. The standard is what the people making the platform you're using decided it to be so that they can make things more predictable and easier to debug. Again, if they changed their standard to WD On, that is what I would be suggesting because that only helps VRC. This is only perpetuating a problem.