[1189] Change Quest hard limits to a toggle
closed
AgentBaphomet
Give Quest users a choice to disable physbones hard limits with a checkbox under performance settings like PC users have/had for dynamic bones
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Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Merged in a post:
physbone limit pls rise
S
SkittlesKat
i have been in lobbys with lots of ppl with 20 components or 30 and it didn't lag at all and im on quest 2. in all lobby's i joined 90% of quest user base is upset how limited it is now and we cant enjoy it anymore.
SplitScream
As Long as VRC has to support Quest 1, the Physbone limit will stay like that
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
closed
Hi!
I understand why you might want this, but
we don't plan on implementing the ability to have unlimited PhysBones on Quest.
Here's why.PhysBones, while very performant, still hits the XR2 pretty hard given enough work to do. We try to optimize as best as possible especially for new features on Quest. This is a
brand new feature for Quest
and nothing else existed before in its place.However, we have to be very careful. Due to the extreme prevalence of Very Poor avatars on Quest, we have far less headroom on the Quest than we expect. We already exceed Meta's recommendations for various systems by a pretty big margin, and VRChat's system-level optimizations are reaching a point of diminishing returns.
To be extremely to-the-point: We have very significant performance problems on the Quest that we constantly push back against, and we have no interest in adding in another unlimited factor that would kill performance across the board.
As much as we'd like to let people do whatever they want whenever they want, we've previously observed that without any hard limits, average numbers tend to balloon way out of control without any way for us to reasonably fix the issue.
That's why we've implemented the limit. If it turns out that it's extremely restrictive, we can approach it again later-- however, I do not think this is likely.
Notably, the soft-cap on DynBones on PC has been half of the PB limit for years, and most avatar authors have adapted and dropped below that line to ensure they're performant and that everyone sees their hard work.
Since the PhysBones limits are
double
that DB limit and Quest has never had a system like this before, I expect Quest avatar authors to adapt extremely quickly, and with very little loss of fidelity.AgentBaphomet
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Doesn't have to be unlimited..
What about having the checkbox raising the limit? Would that be a good compromise?
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averyghost
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Appreciate the quick reply. You're right, the Physbones limits are good enough and I believe adaptation and optimization is better than just throwing more power and lower fps at the problem.
Wunder Wulfe
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Use a configurable limit identical to the dynamic bone limiter, and allow safety settings for enabling and disabling PB components separately from interactions/contacts, perhaps even a limit that is adjustable for each user rank. Now you can have friends and trusted users have a more reasonable limit, and at the same time a fraction of a full lobby will have these components enabled rather than everyone. Please reconsider such a situation.
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donaardrake
This needs more attention
Furriest
I feel as if the fault with this principle is that as a VR user, you want it all, so everyone would disable the limits. Plus, Metabook doesn't let its devs create customizable graphics settings (e.g. the rendering resolutions) to the degree some creators want. This was evident when some games in the labs were published, they still had the graphics settings for render resolution and framerate in there, but they were locked to a required setting.
AgentBaphomet
Furriest: Physbones is a physics system not graphical. You said meta doesnt allow user customizable graphics settings. Do you have evidence to support this is a requirement imposed by Meta?
Have you played blade and sorcery nomad on quest 2?
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donaardrake
AgentBaphomet: this would be the same as us showing avatars system wise
Cһara Dreemurr
This would be a good change, makes it up to the user’s preference if they want to sacrifice performance for being able to have more physbones.
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averyghost
If it doesnt perform well, thats the users fault for enabling it, not the Quest's. I think that there is a performance requirement to be on the Meta / Oculus storefront though, so this might not be possible.
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donaardrake
This needs more attention
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FritzTheGhost
Yes pls
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SkittlesKat
i thing it should have a toggle for no limit then limit, that way both parties are happy on quest and pc
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