The "Friends" string needs splitting
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PhonixL
The "Friends" string (22057) is used both as instance types (which would be a propernoun), and general cases. In Traditional and Simplified Chinese, we use two worlds to differenciat the two scenarios. Other languages may encounter this problem too. The string needs to be split for the two scenarios.
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White Lotuz
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White Lotuz
closed
This is no longer required as we'll be updating our guidelines so instance types and trust ranks can be translated as needed.
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ
White Lotuz
With this trust ranks can't be translated, they HAVE TO BE translated, exactly the same way as instance types.
Some languages might require different form of word depending on context. At least in Russian visibility for friends only has to be "for friends only" to be more correct and smoother.
PhonixL
White Lotuz I still think this should be split, so that people can chose to leave the trust ranks in English, or to apply different translations, for whatever reason.
White Lotuz
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ PhonixLy thanks for your comments! Do you have some examples of the general cases (non related to instance types of trust ranks) where this specific string shows up and you would use a different translation?
waso Keli
For Toki Pona, to translate Friends in most cases, we use "jan sina" (Your People) for most labels, and "jan mi" (My People) for most buttons.
For instance types, we can't distinguish between first-, second-, and third-person, so we use the less precise "jan pona" (Good People).
PhonixL
White Lotuz These are some condidated I found. String
Friends
, case specific. Chatbox options appears in both UI and Accessibility settings. Both also appears in QM. These two may be interpreted as the trust rank "Friends". The "Friends" elsewhere feels more like "my friends" than the "Friends" rank. Hopefully this can help ωᴋᴀᴡᴀ
PhonixL Fully agree, in Russian it must be at least 3 forms in different places (Друзья, Друзей and Друзьям) 🤷♀️
White Lotuz
waso Keli PhonixL ᴋᴀᴡᴀ
Thanks! Yeah I think this one is similar to the "Group" string discussion. Sounds like the split needed here is for:
- "Friends" as presented for User Rank/Instance Type
- "Friends" as in "list of users I've friended"?
Are those the use cases that would be translated differently?
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ
White Lotuz Not exactly 😅 That's not how grammatical cases work.
If we take a look at PhonixL screenshots 👆 as examples in Russian, it should be
dative,
dative (may be also instrumental), nominative,
nominative, genitive (if we imply word "number") or dative,
genitive (again, if imply "number") or dative.
And so on in different contexts.
Splitting by User Rank/Instance Type vs. "list of users I've friended"
will sure help
for different meanings/terms and their nominatives but doesn't 100% solves grammatical problems.So, yea, it must be
split literally everywhere
with no double-uses. 🥲 We can survive that without that deep splitting, but it will look and feel like google-transalated
.Cases in grammar are
important
in our languages, because... they help tie the context together. Words in the Russian language can be in any order at all
, and only the grammatical case of each word establishes the correct relationship between words and to whom which property belongs.Classic example is sentences like:
Оля любит Витю,
Оля Витю любит,
Любит Оля Витю,
Любит Витю Оля,
Витю любит Оля,
Витю Оля любит.
They all means "Olga loves Viktor", just words in different order.
They all 100% correct, acceptable and give no space for speculations, so you can't read that as "Viktor loves Olga" or whatever else.
When you see several parts of something, grammar case works as a
method for putting puzzle together
. And even if the puzzle is very small and there is not much to do, a mismatched case confuses
you and makes you feel like didn’t understand something or made a mistake
.waso Keli
White Lotuz for toki pona:
- instance type
- user rank
- list of people i've friended
and then preferably:
- avatar interactions and chatbox visibility (screenshot above)
- number of friends in the world (screenshot above)
naqtn
Also, "Friends are a special Trust Rank" ( https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/vrchat-safety-and-trust-system ). I want to split this usage, too.
StormRel
StormRel
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