Request for Relaxation of Avatar Upload Limits through VRChat Plus or Additional Subscriptions
リリィ♬︎
To begin with, I have been playing VRChat since around 2018. I believe that the recent update regarding new avatar upload restrictions is a great improvement for many users! It prevents issues like avatar-based griefing or loading of large avatars (such as those over 1GB), making public spaces safer.
However, this update has been quite disappointing for communities that create animations using particles, objects, and other features. While the current limits of Compressed: 200MB and Uncompressed: 500MB pose no issue for many users, they present a significant constraint for some communities. Thanks to these communities, I've had countless enjoyable moments and made many friends. If these restrictions continue or are made even stricter, many long-standing communities, including ours that has existed since 2019, may gradually disappear.
As a solution, I propose adding an option called VRChat Plus Avatar within the SDK, accessible through subscribing to VRChat Plus.
■ Current Avatar Upload Limits ■
・Compressed: 200MB
・Uncompressed: 500MB
■ Proposed Relaxation of Limits through VRChat Plus or Additional Subscriptions ■
・Compressed: 300MB to Unlimited
・Uncompressed: 800MB to Unlimited
To accommodate users who do not wish to load high-capacity avatars or deal with potential griefing, it would be possible to make these avatars usable only when uploaded with the VRChat Plus Avatar option checked. In the VRChat avatar settings menu, a toggle (defaulted to off) could be provided to maintain the current state. Additionally, I read the following statement regarding restrictions:
“We are making these changes because our current limits are still too high, and are negatively impacting users.”
Source: [developer-update-14-march-2024/23401]
If VRChat Plus is required for this feature and default restrictions are kept in place, I believe the negative impact on users would be minimal.
There is no place as great as VRChat for us. If the avatar restrictions are further tightened, it will be difficult for communities focused on particle and animation-related activities to continue. We urge the VRChat team to reconsider the system concerning avatar limitations.
We fully understand the need to consider server load and new users. Although I believe such communities may account for only around 2% of the entire VRChat community, I sincerely request that you consider implementing this as a new option for those involved in creating live shows and similar content using particles.
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°Pancake
Sorry, but this is a horrible idea.
I am actually for stricter limits. I've been an avatar creator for over one and a half years now and I can tell you that optimizing your avatars to be below the current limits is really easy. If your avatar uses more than 200mb of VRAM, you didn't even try to optimize it. Sorry, but please, at least try.
I do get that you want to make elaborate things to show off. That's amazing, but in that case just use a world for that, not an avatar. That's what worlds were made for. That's not what avatars were made for.
垂暮龍-青月
Improvements to VRchat using a number of techniques can be effective in mitigating the problem, it is just difficult with VRchat's current technology and ensuring compatibility.
Restrictions are a necessity when VRchat inc. has a limited capacity to work, and adding more restrictions will accomplish the goal faster and save waste.
But as far as RAM/VRAM is concerned, VRchat's texture mipmap streaming is not yet online, which could solve a bottleneck for many.
While it's possible that under Avatar Culling, many people are CPU bottlenecked by the growing number of animation layers and unclosed constraints, etc., there is a positive correlation with size.
ЕriсMyval
I am against such jokes, I noticed that vrchat does everything for children while this platform was for everyone and it was noticed that they delete worlds and avatars of 18+, which is a humiliation for the older generation if they want to get rid of normal people and make a platform for children, then let them make a world in roblox with the name vr chat and they will return the world without anti-cheat
kawashirov
Is this some kind of joke?
Even loading 500MB avatar is a struggle, why need to expand to 800MB?
Just a few people with ~300MB+ uncompressed are enough to lag people around.
It's not about bad intents, it's about incompetence: there's simply no avatars ~300MB+ that cannot be optimized and really need those limits.
Just tell anybody why you need these limits?
そらみみ
EN:
Disagree, I disagree. I think even the 200MB/500MB limit is too loose.
Instead, I offer the following proposal.
- Allow worlds to set size limits for avatars. The limit can be made looser or stricter according to the wishes of the world author.
In addition to that,
- Free members should be limited to 1GB (for example) of total avatar storage, and if they want more storage than that, they need to become a VRC+ member.
These allow VRChat to collect the interests of users who want to play and those who want to express in a variety of ways, and VRChat can earn revenue according to the Resources needed.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
JA:
Basically the opposite. I think even the 200MB/500MB limit is too loose.
Instead, I would like to make the following suggestions.
- Make it possible to set an avatar capacity limit on the world side. Restrictions can be made looser or stricter depending on the intention of the world author.
In addition to that,
- Free members limit the total capacity of avatars they own to 1GB (example), and if you want more storage than that, you need to become a VRC+ member.
This satisfies the needs of users who want light play and users who want diverse expressions, and VRChat can earn revenue according to the resources required.
リリィ♬︎
そらみみ .JP
Thank you for your feedback.
I think proposals such as restrictions on the world side and storage systems such as the total capacity of avatars for free members are very good. I think there are definitely omissions in the settings for each user, and I thought that by imposing restrictions on the world itself, I would feel more secure in a world where beginners gather, such as Tutorial World.
.EN
Thank you for your feedback.
I think your intentions, such as imposing threats on the world side and the total storage capacity for avatars for free members, are excellent. Individual user settings can sometimes be discovered, so often difficult within the world could create a safer environment, especially in tutorial worlds and worlds where Gather frequently.
Chdata
そらみみ World restriction is a great idea tbh.
I think that deserves a post of its own too, I'll upvote it.
naqtn
I disagree with this proposal.
The limitation is not only for each user. It also defines the average level at which the creators aim. In this sense, requiring VRChat+ is not an effective safeguard because it is relatively common for active Japanese users. The existing "Avatar Optimization" settings also can not be the reason to allow the expansion.
Also, in my opinion, such performances are superb because they "are avatars" that are restricted compared to the world. Extending the limit of avatars for this purpose is a misplacement of priorities.
However, if the operations to activate are too annoying for daily use, I feel that could be a point of compromise.
For example, you must switch on the option every time and within one minute to view (or load) such avatars. In other words, the option goes off automatically in one minute and/or after loading such an avatar.
(In Japanese)
提案には反対です。
制限は個々のユーザーのためのものだけでなく、クリエイターが目指す平均のレベルも定義します。この意味で、VRChat+ を要求することは有効な保護策にはなりません。VRChat+ はアクティブな日本のユーザーにとって比較的一般的ですから。「アバターの最適化」設定が存在することもまた拡張を許す理由にはなりません。
また私見ですが、そのようなパフォーマンスが素晴らしいのは、ワールドに対して制限された「アバターである」からだと思います。この目的のためにアバターの制限を広げるというのは本末転倒であるように思います。
ところで。有効にする操作が日常的に使用するには面倒すぎるものであれば、それは妥協点になりうるかもしれません。
たとえば、そのようなアバターを表示（またはロード）するには、毎回かつ1分以内にオプションをオンにする必要がある、言い換えると、1分後またはそのようなアバターをロードした後にオプションは自動的にオフになる、というような形です。
ᴅᴇʀᴜᴛᴀ
[JP]
Opinions and speculations without understanding the specifications of VRChat stand out, so I will once again express my opinion in favor of mitigation.
Currently, in the animator community I run, no one has trouble creating animations even with an uncompressed 500MB. It just takes a little more time and effort. The main limitation is that you can't put multiple animations into a single avatar.
The reason I agree with mitigation is that I don't think there are any disadvantages on the user side even if restrictions are relaxed. VRChat already has a function to set avatar download limits, and almost everyone around me changes the restrictions according to the location.
However, there are advantages for some users who create and show off animations. This is because the range of expression expands. I'm not saying that you can't create works because of capacity restrictions. When creating large animations, there are many people who make optimizations, such as worldization and weight reduction. If there is a system where VRChat+ subscribers have advantages, as proposed by Lily, there are advantages on the VRChat side as well.
Also, it's sad that avatars I'm attached to, made with past capacity limits, are disappearing. There are also avatars that can't be updated because the project has disappeared.
Even if it is difficult to ease restrictions, it will be too late if you don't raise your voice before restrictions are further strengthened in the future, so I agree with the relaxation at this stage.
---------------------
[EN]
I'm seeing a lot of criticism and speculations from people who don't want to understand VRchat's opinions, so I'd like to repeat my support for the changes.
Currently, in the animator community I manage, even with uncompressed 500MB files, no one has trouble creating animations. It just adds a bit of extra work. The main reason is not being able to put multiple animations into a single avatar.
I'm in favor of the changes because I don't see any downsides for users if the concerns are relaxed. VRChat already has a feature to set avatar download limits, and most people I know adjust those limits based on the location they're in.
However, there are benefits for some users, like those who create and showcase animations. It explores their creative endeavors. IT'S NOT THAT THEY CAN'T CREATE WORKS DUE TO CAPACITY REQUIREMENTS. Many people optimize their work by creating worlds or finding ways to reduce file sizes when making large animations. If VRChat implements a system like Lily suggestions, where VRChat+ benefits get benefits, it would also be useful for VRChat suggestions.
Also, it would be sad to lose beloved avatars that were created within the previous capacity limits. SOME PROJECTS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED, MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO UPDATE THESE AVATARS.
Even if easing the relaxation is relaxing, it's better to voice support for relaxation now, before it's too late. If the trend is to further improve the future, speaking up later might not be effective.
いんく「さよなら夏」
(-) Against with Conditions.
I understand your point. However, if you are unable to give concrete examples on the difficult to overcome live performance on a 500MB uncompressed Avatar (than worlds), it wouldn't be reasonable.
Developing such functions and reducing the limits costs a lot more than just moving to another world.
Also, this includes some kind of privilege such as that people who pay more can damage my RAM in a public instance, if they are avatar performers or not.
I understand the point, but I wouldn't be convinced if there were no avatars over 500MB with effects and specific examples where that content isn't good in the world.
Costs are necessary for development and discussion of the scope of restrictions; on the other hand, isn't the cost of “world travel” relatively too low?
Also, regardless of whether they are avatar performers or not, it seems that it will be a privilege sale where “people who pay money can eat more of other people's RAM.”
pitoru（ピトル）
EN:
I am against relaxing the capacity limit.
There are opinions that it should be relaxed only for VRC+ subscribers, that it cannot be used with Particle Live, that it narrows the range of expression, but unless there are some reasonable restrictions, VRChat will not appeal to the general public. Even if the restrictions are relaxed for a certain user with a production gimmick, an unrelated user can upload an unoptimized avatar and destroy the user's PC.
If you really want to expand the expression, wouldn't it be possible to implement it on the world side or optimize the avatar side to keep it within the limit?
Also, if you simply want to optimize the avatar itself, there are several capacity reduction tools such as VRC fury and Avatar Optimizer. Even the 500MB limit seems too much.
JP:
容量制限の緩和には反対です。
パーティクルライブで使えない、表現の幅が狭まる、VRC+加入者だけでも緩和するべきという意見が散見されますが、どこかで常識的な範囲で制限を設けなければVRChatは一般的な層に訴求できないでしょう。演出ギミックを備えるあるユーザーの為に制限を緩和しても、無関係ユーザーが最適化されていないアバターをアップロードすることで十分にユーザーのPCを破壊するのに最適です。
どうしても表現を広げたいのであれば、ワールド側に実装したり、アバター側の最適化などで制限内に収める範囲で可能ではないでしょうか？
また、単純にアバターそのものの最適化であれば、VRC furyやAvatar Optimizerなど複数の容量削減ツールが揃ってきています。500MBという制限でさえ、多すぎるように思えます。
pitoru（ピトル）
I have posted a canny that allows uploading of small 3D model objects. It may partially achieve the purpose without canny.
リリィ♬︎
pitoru（ピトル）
.JP: Thanks for your feedback
As I saw, “It's perfect for unrelated users to sufficiently destroy a user's PC by uploading an unoptimized avatar.” What exactly does that mean? In VRChat, there are various ways to deal with it, such as not loading avatars outside the allowable range due to settings such as capacity limits.
Also, I thought the plan that allows free entry and exit of objects apart from avatars is very good, so I voted in favor of it.
Thank you for all your comments and suggestions.
.EN: Thank you for your feedback
I have considered your input, but I would like to say what you mean by “It is optimal for unrelated users to upload unoptimized avatars, which can cause damage to PCs.” VRChat has various measures, such as setting capacity limits, which prevent loading avatars outside the acceptable range.
Remembering, I thought the idea of being able to believe insert and remove objects presented from avatars was excellent, so I cast my vote in favor.
Thank you for your various suggestions and suggestions.
Luoxia
All we know is that this is happening due to poor management of this game
It's hard to fire staff on a low budget, don't have funds to maintain active servers and storage space, and avatars are hard to download directly to computers, but the solution proposed here is excellent. This is not about improving the performance of low-income computer groups. 1 MB avatars can cause the same performance degradation as 500 MB avatars
And yes, it's obvious to point out that our model has been optimized and we're putting effort into it.
EN
ALL WE KNOW IS THAT THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE POOR ADMINISTRATION OF THIS GAME
Low budget, firing staff and not having money to maintain active servers and storage capacity even though the avatars are struggling to our computers, the solution is here GOOD, THIS IS NOT ABOUT IMPORTANT PERFORMANCE FOR PEOPLE WITH LOW RESOURCES ON THEIR COMPUTER, A1 MB AVATAR CAN CAUSE THE SAME LOSS OF PERFORMANCE AS ONE OF 500 MB
And yes, it is more than considering to point out that our models are optimized and we put effort into them
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