Request for Relaxation of Avatar Upload Limits through VRChat Plus or Additional Subscriptions
リリィ♬︎
To begin with, I have been playing VRChat since around 2018. I believe that the recent update regarding new avatar upload restrictions is a great improvement for many users! It prevents issues like avatar-based griefing or loading of large avatars (such as those over 1GB), making public spaces safer.
However, this update has been quite disappointing for communities that create animations using particles, objects, and other features. While the current limits of Compressed: 200MB and Uncompressed: 500MB pose no issue for many users, they present a significant constraint for some communities. Thanks to these communities, I've had countless enjoyable moments and made many friends. If these restrictions continue or are made even stricter, many long-standing communities, including ours that has existed since 2019, may gradually disappear.
As a solution, I propose adding an option called VRChat Plus Avatar within the SDK, accessible through subscribing to VRChat Plus.
■ Current Avatar Upload Limits ■
・Compressed: 200MB
・Uncompressed: 500MB
■ Proposed Relaxation of Limits through VRChat Plus or Additional Subscriptions ■
・Compressed: 300MB to Unlimited
・Uncompressed: 800MB to Unlimited
To accommodate users who do not wish to load high-capacity avatars or deal with potential griefing, it would be possible to make these avatars usable only when uploaded with the VRChat Plus Avatar option checked. In the VRChat avatar settings menu, a toggle (defaulted to off) could be provided to maintain the current state. Additionally, I read the following statement regarding restrictions:
“We are making these changes because our current limits are still too high, and are negatively impacting users.”
Source: [developer-update-14-march-2024/23401]
If VRChat Plus is required for this feature and default restrictions are kept in place, I believe the negative impact on users would be minimal.
There is no place as great as VRChat for us. If the avatar restrictions are further tightened, it will be difficult for communities focused on particle and animation-related activities to continue. We urge the VRChat team to reconsider the system concerning avatar limitations.
We fully understand the need to consider server load and new users. Although I believe such communities may account for only around 2% of the entire VRChat community, I sincerely request that you consider implementing this as a new option for those involved in creating live shows and similar content using particles.
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°Pancake
Sorry, but this is a horrible idea.
I am actually for stricter limits. I've been an avatar creator for over one and a half years now and I can tell you that optimizing your avatars to be below the current limits is really easy. If your avatar uses more than 200mb of VRAM, you didn't even try to optimize it. Sorry, but please, at least try.
I do get that you want to make elaborate things to show off. That's amazing, but in that case just use a world for that, not an avatar. That's what worlds were made for. That's not what avatars were made for.
垂暮龍-青月
Improvements to VRchat using a number of techniques can be effective in mitigating the problem, it is just difficult with VRchat's current technology and ensuring compatibility.
Restrictions are a necessity when VRchat inc. has a limited capacity to work, and adding more restrictions will accomplish the goal faster and save waste.
But as far as RAM/VRAM is concerned, VRchat's texture mipmap streaming is not yet online, which could solve a bottleneck for many.
While it's possible that under Avatar Culling, many people are CPU bottlenecked by the growing number of animation layers and unclosed constraints, etc., there is a positive correlation with size.
ЕriсMyval
I am against such jokes, I noticed that vrchat does everything for children while this platform was for everyone and it was noticed that they delete worlds and avatars of 18+, which is a humiliation for the older generation if they want to get rid of normal people and make a platform for children, then let them make a world in roblox with the name vr chat and they will return the world without anti-cheat
ᴋᴀᴡᴀ
Is this some kind of joke?
Even loading 500MB avatar is a struggle, why need to expand to 800MB?
Just a few people with ~300MB+ uncompressed are enough to lag people around.
It's not about bad intents, it's about incompetence: there's simply no avatars ~300MB+ that cannot be optimized and really need those limits.
Just tell anybody why you need these limits?
そらみみ
EN:
Basically, I disagree. I consider even the 200MB/500MB limit too loose.
Instead, I offer the following proposal.
- Allow worlds to set size limits for avatars. The limit can be made looser or stricter according to the wishes of the world author.
In addition to that,
- Free members should be limited to 1GB (for example) of total avatar storage, and if they want more storage than that, they need to become a VRC+ member.
These allow VRChat to satisfy the demands of users who want to play lightly and those who want to express themselves in a variety of ways, and VRChat can earn revenue according to the resources needed.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
JA:
基本的には反対です。私は200MB/500MBの制限値でさえ緩すぎると考えます。
その代わり、以下の提案をします。
- ワールド側でアバターの容量制限を設定できるようにする。ワールド作者の意向により、制限をより緩くしたり厳しくしたりできるようにする。
それに加えて、
- 無料会員は保有するアバターの総容量を1GB（例）までとし、それを超えるストレージがほしいならVRC+会員になる必要がある。
これらにより、軽快なプレイを望むユーザーと多彩な表現をしたいユーザーの要望を満たし、必要とされるリソースに応じてVRChat社は収益を得ることができます。
リリィ♬︎
そらみみ.JP さん
ご意見ありがとうございます。
ワールド側での制限や無料会員のアバタの総容量などストレージ制などの提案などとても良いと思います。ユーザー各々での設定はどうしても抜けがあるものだと思います、ワールド自体で制限をかけることでチュートリアルワールドなどの初心者が集まるワールドでより安心できるかと思いました。
.EN
Thank you for your feedback.
I think your suggestions, such as imposing restrictions on the world side and limiting the total storage capacity for avatars for free members, are excellent. Individual user settings can sometimes be inconsistent, so placing restrictions directly within the world could create a safer environment, especially in tutorial worlds and worlds where beginners gather.
Chdata
そらみみ World restriction is a great idea tbh.
I think that deserves a post of its own too, I'll upvote it.
naqtn
I disagree with this proposal.
The limitation is not only for each user. It also defines the average level at which the creators aim. In this sense, requiring VRChat+ is not an effective safeguard because it is relatively common for active Japanese users. The existing "Avatar Optimization" settings also can not be the reason to allow the expansion.
Also, in my opinion, such performances are superb because they "are avatars" that are restricted compared to the world. Extending the limit of avatars for this purpose is a misplacement of priorities.
However, if the operations to activate are too annoying for daily use, I feel that could be a point of compromise.
For example, you must switch on the option every time and within one minute to view (or load) such avatars. In other words, the option goes off automatically in one minute and/or after loading such an avatar.
(In Japanese)
提案には反対です。
制限は個々のユーザーのためのものだけでなく、クリエイターが目指す平均のレベルも定義します。この意味で、VRChat+ を要求することは有効な保護策にはなりません。VRChat+ はアクティブな日本のユーザーにとって比較的一般的ですから。「アバターの最適化」設定が存在することもまた拡張を許す理由にはなりません。
また私見ですが、そのようなパフォーマンスが素晴らしいのは、ワールドに対して制限された「アバターである」からだと思います。この目的のためにアバターの制限を広げるというのは本末転倒であるように思います。
ところで。有効にする操作が日常的に使用するには面倒すぎるものであれば、それは妥協点になりうるかもしれません。
たとえば、そのようなアバターを表示（またはロード）するには、毎回かつ1分以内にオプションをオンにする必要がある、言い換えると、1分後またはそのようなアバターをロードした後にオプションは自動的にオフになる、というような形です。
ᴅᴇʀᴜᴛᴀ
【JP】
VRChatの仕様を理解していない状態での意見や憶測が目立つので、改めて緩和への賛成意見を述べます。
現在私が運営しているアニメーターコミュニティでは、非圧縮500MBでもアニメーション制作で困る人はいません。少し手間が増える程度です。複数のアニメーションを1つのアバターに入れられないことくらいが主な制限です。
緩和に賛成する理由は、制限が緩和されてもユーザー側にデメリットがないと思うからです。VRChatには既にアバターダウンロード制限を設定する機能があり、私の周りではほとんどの人が場所に合わせて制限を変えています。
しかし、アニメーション制作や披露をする一部のユーザーにはメリットがあります。表現の幅が広がるからです。容量制限のせいで作品が作れないと言っているわけではありません。容量の大きいアニメーションを作る際はワールド化や軽量化など、最適化をしている人はたくさんいます。リリィさんの提案のようにVRChat＋契約者にメリットがある仕組みになれば、VRChat側にもメリットがあります。
また、過去の容量制限で作られた愛着のあるアバターが消えてしまうのは悲しいです。プロジェクトが消えてアップデートできないアバターもあります。
制限緩和が難しくても、今後さらに制限が強化される流れになる前に声をあげないと手遅れになるので、私は今の段階で緩和に賛成します。
---------------------
【EN】
I'm seeing a lot of opinions and speculations from people who don't seem to understand VRChat's specifications, so I'd like to reiterate my support for the proposed changes.
Currently, in the animator community I manage, even with uncompressed 500MB files, no one has trouble creating animations. It just adds a bit of extra work. The main limitation is not being able to put multiple animations into a single avatar.
I'm in favor of the changes because I don't see any downsides for users if the restrictions are relaxed. VRChat already has a feature to set avatar download limits, and most people I know adjust those limits based on the location they're in.
However, there are benefits for some users, like those who create and showcase animations. It expands their creative possibilities. It's not that they can't create works due to capacity restrictions. Many people optimize their work by creating worlds or finding ways to reduce file sizes when making large animations. If VRChat implements a system like Lily suggested, where VRChat+ subscribers get benefits, it would also be advantageous for VRChat itself.
Also, it would be sad to lose beloved avatars that were created within the previous capacity limits. Some projects have been discontinued, making it impossible to update those avatars.
Even if easing the restrictions is difficult, it's better to voice support for relaxation now, before it's too late. If the trend is to further tighten the restrictions in the future, speaking up later might not be effective.
いんく（Eenkoo）
(-) Against with conditions.
I understand your point. However if you are unable to give concrete examples on the necessity to implement live performance on a 500MB uncompressed Avatar (than worlds), it would not be reasonable.
Developing such function and determining the limits costs a lot more than just moving to another world.
Also, this brings some kind of privilege such that people who pay more can damage my RAM in a public instance, regardless of if they are avatar performers or not.
ポイントはわかりますが、500MB超えの演出込アバターと、その内容がワールドだと良くないの具体例がないと、納得できません。
開発や制限の範囲議論にはコストが必要です、それに対して「ワールド移動」のコストが比較的に低すぎませんか？
それに、アバターパフォマーであるかどうかかかわらず、「金払った人がもっと他人のRAMを食える」という特権販売になってしまいそうです。
pitoru（ピトル）
EN:
I am against relaxing the capacity limit.
There are opinions that it should be relaxed only for VRC+ subscribers, that it cannot be used with Particle Live, that it narrows the range of expression, but unless there are some reasonable restrictions, VRChat will not appeal to the general public. Even if the restrictions are relaxed for a certain user with a production gimmick, an unrelated user can upload an unoptimized avatar and destroy the user's PC.
If you really want to expand the expression, wouldn't it be possible to implement it on the world side or optimize the avatar side to keep it within the limit?
Also, if you simply want to optimize the avatar itself, there are several capacity reduction tools such as VRC fury and Avatar Optimizer. Even the 500MB limit seems too much.
JP:
容量制限の緩和には反対です。
パーティクルライブで使えない、表現の幅が狭まる、VRC+加入者だけでも緩和するべきという意見が散見されますが、どこかで常識的な範囲で制限を設けなければVRChatは一般的な層に訴求できないでしょう。演出ギミックを備えるあるユーザーの為に制限を緩和しても、無関係ユーザーが最適化されていないアバターをアップロードすることで十分にユーザーのPCを破壊するのに最適です。
どうしても表現を広げたいのであれば、ワールド側に実装したり、アバター側の最適化などで制限内に収める範囲で可能ではないでしょうか？
また、単純にアバターそのものの最適化であれば、VRC furyやAvatar Optimizerなど複数の容量削減ツールが揃ってきています。500MBという制限でさえ、多すぎるように思えます。
pitoru（ピトル）
I have posted a canny that allows uploading of small 3D model objects. It may partially achieve the purpose without canny.
リリィ♬︎
pitoru（ピトル）
.JP: ご意見ありがとうございます
拝見させていただきましたが、「無関係ユーザーが最適化されていないアバターをアップロードすることで十分にユーザーのPCを破壊するのに最適です。」というのは具体的にどのようなことを指しているのでしょうか？VRChatでは、容量制限などの設定により許容範囲外のアバターは読み込まないなど、様々な対処方法があります。
また、アバターとは別にオブジェクトを自由に出し入れできる案はとても良いと思いましたので、賛成の投票を入れさせていただきました。
様々な意見や提案をありがとうございました。
.EN: Thank you for your feedback
I have reviewed your input, but I would like to clarify what you mean by "It is optimal for unrelated users to upload unoptimized avatars, which can sufficiently damage users' PCs." VRChat has various measures, such as setting capacity limits, which prevent loading avatars outside the acceptable range.
Additionally, I thought the idea of being able to freely insert and remove objects separately from avatars was excellent, so I cast my vote in favor.
Thank you for your various opinions and suggestions.
Luoxia
私たちが知っているのは、このゲームの管理が不十分なためにこれが起こっているということだけです
低予算でスタッフを解雇し、アクティブなサーバーとストレージ容量を維持するための資金がなく、アバターがコンピューターに直接ダウンロードされるのは困難ですが、ここで提案されているソリューションは優れています。これはコンピューターの低所得層のパフォーマンスを向上させることではありません。 1 MB のアバターは、500 MB のアバターと同じパフォーマンスの低下を引き起こす可能性があります
そして、はい、私たちのモデルが最適化されており、それに力を入れていることを指摘するのは明白です。
EN
All we know is that this is happening because of the poor administration of this game
Low budget, firing staff and not having money to maintain active servers and storage capacity even though the avatars are downloaded directly to our computers, the solution proposed here is good, this is not about improving performance for people with low resources on their computer, a 1 MB avatar can cause the same loss of performance as one of 500 MB
And yes, it is more than obvious to point out that our models are optimized and we put effort into them
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