Please don't delete "Show Avatar" for Very poor avatars functionality and very poor avatars on Quest
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のあさんだよ
I'm on Quest using Oculus Quest 2
VRChat is thinking that they may delete "Show Avatar" for Very poor avatars functionality and Very Poor avatars in the future
but in acutual fact, most of my friends and I use very poor avatar for Quest
so please don't delete that please
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Franada
So I bought 4 cans or beer, great time ahead
ᴘʀᴏᴏxʏ
i dont see reasons to delete very poor avatars on mobile platform as quest 3 is coming with 12gb ram and u can have a 16gb ram phone to run it soo dont make sense
its a social game btw not any fps competitive game so the framerate is not important at all
if they do this on the mobile version the show avatar option will be useless
so many quest compatible avatars will be lost im talking about millions
im not going to play a game that doesnt show me quality avatars on a vr headset that i paid 500$
10.000 polygons used to be on ps2 graphics on early 2000s not for 2020s we are 20 years ahead on the future why we still have the graphics of 20 years on the past???
its like paying for a ps5 and recieving ps2 games to play instead ngl
understand that this is we going to be able to see mobile version of the vrchat
seriously that's ridiculous...
if soo pls make another big AVATARJAM for many people warning that verypoor avatar will be removed bcs seriously im not going to play vrchat to see that type of "Avatars" on my screen
kawashirov
> the framerate is not important at all
This is most 🤡🤡🤡 I read on vrchat canny so far.
Darryl Nebula
give us very poor back. let us use our devices how we want, vrchat devs.
add a very poor toggle in safety & comfort that allows us to see very poor again on both mobile and quest!
Scout - VRChat Head of Quality Assurance
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Temmie Dola
please delete this in pc too
ForeverAndaDay
Temmie Dola: please don't. almost all pc avatars are very poor. the performance ranks need rebalancing.
Fairplex
ForeverAndaDay: No. People needs to optimize their avatars, this is not the responsibility of VRChat and it will be a good change for everyone.
1TheBlueWii1
Fairplex: While I agree people should actively optimize their avatars, I think the choice to SEE them at least should still be there.
If people can handle 'Very Poor' avatars on thier PCs, then they should have the option. And if not, then set the limit.
I know you would see a lot of grey robots, but you can also tweek your safety settings too.
And like what ForeverAndaDay said, good majority of avatars happen to be 'Very Poor'. If they were deleted by force one day, it would be disastrous!
Whaddageek
Fairplex: The Quality metrics aren't actually based on real-world avatar performance, they'll just automatically go to Poor or Very Poor the moment you even touch certain Unity features. It's possible to have an otherwise-Excellent avatar get dinged down to Poor or worse simply because it has a light on it, or audio sources.
kawashirov
ForeverAndaDay: current limits for Medium on PC is more than enough to make a good avatar.
kaikoga
kawashirov: No, it is not. There are different demands.
When you use public avatar pedestals and roam through public worlds, nobody cares how you look and the more performant your avatar is the better.
Meanwhile, when you use your private personalized avatar and just hang out and chit-chat with your well-known friends in a friend only instance, nobody cares how your avatar crop your FPS (because you are just talking and/or all your friends own an RTX 3090) and the more appealing your avatar (with all the brilliant custom shaders and particles) is the better.
Deleting Show Avatar on PCs would delete the latter use case. In the real world, many people choose their look in photos over someone's FPS, and in the last resort, you can always hide other avatars with safety or by performance rank.
It is almost the same for Quest, although Quest doesn't have an external GPU you can just talk with your friends (or take nice photos) in a cooler look / environment at the sacrifice of some frame rate drop, which you ultimately don't care because you are just talking without moving an inch, and you want to hang out with your friends after all. That is a tradeoff which someone would want to consider.
kawashirov
kaikoga:
> nobody cares how your avatar crop your FPS
me and all my friends cares
> all your friends own an RTX 3090
Didn't read afterwards, bourgeoisie.
Ram․Type-0
kawashirov:
kaikoga:
It doesn't a matter that who cares about FPS or who have RTX 3090, or which thought is major.
The important thing is that we could have own choice.
Currently, we could choose one from both of them.
Deleting "Show Avatar" for Very poor avatars reduces our choices. Nobody wins.
Ram․Type-0
In the first place, the current performance rankings are too far removed from actual performance, requiring unnecessary optimization and even overlooking poorly performing avatars.
Unnecessary constraints
- Polygons
It should be equivalent to the PC one.
- Animators
Animator limits are fundamentally unworkable.
Animator load is highly dependent on the content of the animation being played by the animator, not the number of animators themselves, and the current restrictions completely ignore this.
It is also possible to almost completely nullify the current constraints by merging the controllers of multiple animators as a separate layer of the controller for a single animator.
Missing constraints
- Particle System GPU instancing
Particles that do not use GPU instancing should be banned.
This should help relax the number of particles and total polygon limit.
- Particle System modules
The performance of Particle Systems highly depends on the modules it have, but it is currently ignored.
Counterproductive constraints
- Material Slots
Limiting the number of materials is a very effective constraint, but the first thing users will do in the face of this constraint is to integrate the Opaque material into the Cutout material.
This would be a huge performance hit, as the PowerVR GPUs which Quest uses are even worse at Cutout shaders than Transparent shaders.
This is a very difficult problem to solve because limiting the number of materials itself is very effective.
Now that I have talked about the "first place", I don't think VeryPoor
avatars should be removed even if these issues are resolved.
VexaMoonlight
Ram․Type-0: I also think bones on quest should match bone count on PC as most people cannot have less than 75 bones. For many that would mean bones on the base alone and does not count face or even the hair either.
Tony_Lewis
(Just add as reference to say, reason of this is not VRChat itself considering mainly.)
Main issue maker is actually Oculus Store publish guideline which is really strict for Quest.
Oculus Store require you to follow following rules to publish to Quest store,
"You need to make sure stable 72fps for 45 continuous minutes except black/loading screen."
if you turn on mirror or have 3 very poor avatars.....will easily fail.
Hideki Saito
Tony_Lewis: Arguably, though, if there are 39 other users at Medium or even Good rating, I would doubt if one can consistently keep 72 fps, especially in a decently complex world. I'm curious how that guideline is enforced for the systems that involves mainly UGCs...
Tony_Lewis
Hideki Saito: That's my question too. I don't know which world they use to get reference point. (with how many users?)
Maybe "VRChat Home" world with few to 8 people could be as it is their creation. Just a idea but....possibility be anything.
Hideki Saito
Tony_Lewis: Perhaps VRChat worked with Oculus to come up with some metrics. They might have even exempted for this requirement, considering nature of the platform. (Also it is beneficial to Oculus to have VRChat on their platform, too.)
Tony_Lewis
Hideki Saito: Yeah, it is. I would like to see how they react to this canny as their are so many new voter comes up at the moment.
ゆ
ゆうき_YUUKI_雪
I'm currently using Vive, and I'm having fun with Very Poor without any problems. Rather, if you make it look very poor, you won't be able to fully enjoy developing or editing a new avatar. Also, I think it's particularly inappropriate for users using Quest.
I'm using Vive now, and I'm having fun playing Very Poor without any issues. Rather, if I can't see Very Poor, I can't fully enjoy developing or editing new avatars. And I think it's particularly inappropriate for users using Quest.
ツギハギ【０ｗ０】ニク
My good friend who started with VRChat is a Quest 2 standalone player, so it's sad that they recognize their appearance and can't play together.
I'd like to ask for it as it is now.
小彁鳥遊まりあ（Tmaria）
If this were to be introduced, I would definitely quit.
If this is wrong, I will quit.
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