Index controller and avatar hand pose mismatch
tracked
gallium
When following Unity's documentation on humanoid configuration (arms, hands and fingers align with X axis in unity) the hand pose in VRChat is incorrect.
In the first image I am physically pointing my finger straight down. The laser pointer is correctly aligned with the controller, the avatar hand is not.
The second image shows the controller wireframe tooltip, further highlighting the extent of the mismatch.
The third and fourth images show the issue occurs across other avatars.
In the fifth image I counter-rotated the hand in the humanoid configuration in unity by roughly the angle mismatch, and while that corrected the angle mismatch, it has introduced a number of other problems (finger rotation axes are now wrong, laser origin is in a strange place) that make it useless as any kind of workaround.
Counter-rotating the fingers to fix their rotation in this case also negates the rotation correction in the first place.
This behaviour is present on both live and IK beta, pictures are from live.
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FIZZEZ
Many people have the same problem, and hopefully the VRChat team can solve it
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Did some investigation!
gallium's post up above was made using "IK 1.0", which was the build that was live on May 18th. I asked them via Discord DM and they noted that there was no change in behavior between IK 1.0 and IK 2.0. This lines up with our expectation.
In short,
this hasn't changed with the release of IK 2.0
. I've confirmed this with engineers and recorded video/screenshots of IK 1.0. (We suspect people saying it did
change were previously using client modifications. Don't break the rules. smack
)We'd consider this less a bug and more a "refinement request" without a straightforward answer, because if you rotate the hand to line up the index fingers, all of your other fingers are now angled out of alignment. This may not be desirable to people who are fine with the current implementation (and who also wouldn't come digging around on Canny to find a post to say "no I like how it is right now")
As such, I'm going to move this post to Feature Requests.
s
schnabeltierr
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: I see the point regarding the alignment of the other fingers on the index, but what about the severity of the offset in the screenshots I made when using the wands? Is that severe enough to be considered a bug?
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
schnabeltierr: It isn't about severity, it's more about "trading off" things. We haven't touched how the Wands are handled since... well, a
very long time ago
. Most people that still use wands (which is a very low number, fwiw) are probably used to how it is right now, and changing it could be highly disruptive.We have to take that into consideration, along with the fact that changing it means that although the index finger is now in alignment,
all the other fingers are now out-of-alignment
.s
schnabeltierr
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: It would be disruptive to fix this bug? Come on, get real. Please tell me which one of those fingers in my screenshots is in alignment at all, they are all completely off, it's not even about the angle and it's not even a little bit. There is no trade-off to be made in this particular case. The entire hand is not attached to the correct part of the controller.
There are not that many controllers. You got the index, the quest 1 and 2, and the wands as the major ones. Might as well count the Pimax Swords too I guess. Why can't a developer sit down with a set of each controllers and just calibrate this? It sounds like something that shouldn't take longer than an afternoon.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
schnabeltierr: It isn't about the amount of effort! Any change we make (anywhere, not just here) can have huge cascading effects. From our 5+ years of experience developing VRChat, we've discovered that even
slightly
changing things like controller orientation can be extremely disruptive. These changes must be measured, carefully implemented, tested, and given a chance to get feedback before full implementation.I understand the desire here, but we've got to consider all users and use cases.
s
schnabeltierr
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Please consider giving the users the option for a manual hand offset in the future. It would help us tremendously.
Thank you very much for your time and thanks for listening. I appreciate it.
gallium
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Fixes like this are repairs to something long broken. Accept the short term disruption to fixing it and
fix
it.At the bare minimum provide extra detail into how the rotation offset is calculated so for users where this is a significant problem they can compensate properly, if that is even possible.
s
schnabeltierr
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: I hate to beg here, but can you please consider this feature request once more? It's what makes the game unplayable for me at this stage.
s
schnabeltierr
This is particularly bad with the vive wands, I swear my hands are off by more than 2 inches with the wands because somehow it assumes I'm holding onto the very end of the controller. It's incredibly uncanny.
On these screenshots I'm touching my fingertips.
I've posted about the issue already in the IK-Beta canny, since it was introduced with the new IK.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
Thank you for the detailed example images, these help a lot!
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
tracked
Reava_
Confirming this here, checking / fixing the roll on my hand bones didn't fix anything, and is way more noticable (and extremely immersion breaking) since the IK2 went live. Happens across multiple (wildly) different models (furry, anime, chibi, proportion accurate), around 8 of my dozen models are effected more or less. pointing, handling, grabbing things is extremely unpleasant
Reava_
I should add that has always been a thing, but now that IK2 improved immersion a ton, this is increasingly awful to experience in comparison, added to that new avatar of mine having it worse than any of my other ones. I will see if any other rigs i own react as bad as this one, and try to see if anything can help, although it seems pretty widely spread and known issue as much as users have gotten used to it as we all have