Have an option to enable or disable Camera Near-Clip Adjustment settings to persist between game restarts.
tsuseki
First of all, I'd like to elaborate on why having a small Near-Clip plane is essential. In the blog post, it's mentioned that small avatars can see their hands. While this is true, I believe the main advantage of a near clip plane is the ability to receive headpats and perform actions that require being close to other players, such as kissing. When a world is not constructed with this in mind and someone tries to headpat you, you suddenly see their wrist and the inside of their avatar, which disrupts the experience and immersion. I often find myself going through an awkward "sigh... wait, I forgot to switch the near-clip plane, let me open my menu," then I open my menu and change the setting. This happens almost every single time I log on.
I am aware that there are different types of players, and some prefer flying in worlds and similar activities. You claim that those worlds are considered broken with a small near clip plane. However, there are different kinds of players, including myself, who enjoy cuddles and being close to others. For us, many worlds are considered broken without the near camera distance. I believe that the near clip plane being broken is a far greater issue than the far clip plane being broken. I would argue that being able to receive headpats is more essential than being able to see the stars and background objects. When I go to flying worlds and want to engage with airplanes (which doesn't happen often, maybe a couple of hours per year), I turn off the near distance. If I don't want to fly and want to be close to other players (almost every day), I simply find that world unusable and move somewhere else. Switching the distance back to "normal" doesn't fix the issue, as seeing mountains is not helpful if headpats are broken.
If there is a strong preference to maintain the current behavior of resetting the Near-Clip setting with each game restart, I propose the addition of a toggle option below it, labeled "Persist Between Game Restarts." While you might be thinking that it may be helpful to include a warning message for users who opt to enable this feature, such as "Enabling this option may affect the performance of larger worlds." I’d argue that if a user chooses to disable the persistent setting, a more important warning should be issued, stating "Disabling this option may disrupt headpats in many worlds." This approach would empower users to make informed choices based on their individual preferences and experiences.
The near and far clip plane settings are typically determined by the world creator. However, it's worth noting that in practice, many worlds, including even very small ones, often do not have these settings configured correctly.
Your consideration of this feature request would greatly enhance the user experience and inclusivity within VRChat. Thank you for your attention to this matter.
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frou01
Not crash, but you will have difficulty to acces your menu UI and the shadow should start flashing.
This is come from floating-point-arithmetic, in a large world, it is a universal thing.
It used to be a given that world creators had control over this, so they could take precautions in advance.
It seems that it is not well known that the UI becomes inaccessible. You can't do anything after entering.
(Well, I have an idea for an implementation that doesn't happen like this.However, it would be difficult to add it to the Sagrada Familia Project(VRC) later.)
Nowadays, users will complain about not being able to interact with the UI and get frustrated, but under the current circumstances, it is unlikely that someone who rarely visits such a world would complain to the world author without realizing that it come from wrong settings.
The warning message on changing to "forced" is probably for gurding the world author rather than the user. It's standing in between so that users who self-destruct don't complain to the world's creator. The same goes for "reset".
As a result, conflicts between users about this will be less likely to occur. (Note: World creators are also users.)
frou01
Honestly, I think it's enough to give all of world creator the option to disable "dynamic" or "forced" or both. Like avatar scaling.
However, VRC probably doesn't want to cause unnecessary trouble to world creators. We are already busy optimizing our world as much as possible to handle the avatar CPU/GPU/VRAM usage.
frou01
Hmm, let's I write my feedback separately.
Rokk
frou01: you can still access your menu if you scale up your avatar in the quick menu, since that doesn't rely on pointing a laser at a 2D menu and is fully controlled with the hand menu (or R key and mouse) instead.
frou01
Rokk: First, I think this is nice workaround.
Just now I noticed a problem. Avatar scaling is often disabled in some worlds, for example in game worlds.
It seems like it's not a complete solution.
Avatar scaling had a lot of bugs when it was first implemented, so some worlds still have it disabled. (The same goes for my world until recently.)
Observer․
We have been asking for the setting to be saved since it arrived in its half baked state.
It’s painful to see the settings menus get so much attention over multiple updates to fix and improve the UI only for this request for near clip to still be ignored.
If they are super worried about it breaking things, just give us a a launch command or config file command. The users who know what the near clip setting is and want it saved are the ones likely to be comfortable with the extra step until everything else is resolved.
Nynapi
There is absolutely no reason to reset it at all. Literally why? It's a user preference already hidden inside a submenu why would you not simply save it as part of the config?
It's such an easy fix too. A matter of 10 minutes of work.
｜KitKat｜
Nynapi: I believe the reason it resets is because it can crash you.
If your home world has the conditions needed for that to happen you just won't be able to launch the game anymore.
Fairplex
｜KitKat｜: Sorry to ask but, what world makes you crash with forced near camera clipping?
tsuseki
｜KitKat｜: Even if that was true you can always load into the default home world if your current is not working for any reason.
Nynapi
｜KitKat｜: Bogus.
Rokk
Nynapi: they want it to reset because they feel it might tread negatively upon the artist's vision for the world. Messing with the near clip plane also messes with the far clip plane to keep the rendering from becoming too messy, but the imposed limits are IMO too low.
The fact that this option resets is an intentional choice, even though it's a dumb one.
Nynapi
Rokk: The "artist" shouldn't and most certainly doesn't care about my preferences and how I configure an app on my PC. Will the artist also cry if I use a colourblind mode?
People who override the near clip settings furthermore already have their priorities and opinion on the matter. They are still able to and will change this setting, you are just putting up an annoying extraclick. Default users who don't care about it can stick to the default settings - they are not affected at all.
｜KitKat｜
Fairplex: I honestly don't remember, I just recall switching it to forced instead of dynamic and the game crashing. This was a while ago, and there are a billion things that could influence that. (Graphics driver versions, specific hardware combination, VRC build version, specific shaders in the world, etc.)
I went on today to test a few different worlds with the different near clipping plane options and I found a pretty bad issue.
When setting the near clip to forced or dynamic in this world:
wrld_eda481aa-5858-4ed2-b530-3eae47c9516b
the menu becomes unusable, I can barely navigate to the rejoin instance button which undoes the forced near clip. If I set it to dynamic I need to go to my home world to change the setting.
If this was my home world and I set it to dynamic there would be no way for me to change it back without restarting the game. If the option was persistent I would be screwed. VRC could add some sort of contingency for this, but imo it's understandable that they'd rather not have it happen in the first place.
Fairplex
｜KitKat｜: I believe this issue is due to the spawn area being too far away from the world origins and this is the responsibility of the world creator to not go outside of the "safe" float point precision limits. (Safe limits that vrchat devs could probably implement)
That said, VRChat could also fix that issue by spawning the menu at coordinate 0 0 0 instead of in front of the player. So no matter where is the player or what settings are used by the player, the menu will always work correctly.
tsuseki
｜KitKat｜: That is just a misbuilt world. If you set a broken world as your homeworld that is just natural selection at this point. I don't think that we all have to suffer because of a possibility that someone might ruin their homeworld and have to contact support to help him.
｜KitKat｜
Fairplex: Yeah, the solution is obviously just to make a better UI system. It's not hard, I've done it myself on several occasions.