Block System Improvements
SoftlySteph
The block system is useful for people you're unlikely to see again -- such as harassers in public worlds, however, it's current implementation is awful for community spaces, and often leads to additional trauma/re-traumatization.
The truth often is that it's safer for you to keep the people that have harmed you unblocked, otherwise you might end up clipping inside them and then surprising each-other when the group points out the problem. This leads to situations where every opening in a chat circle has inherent unsafety. When you block an abuser you risk diffusing their existence into a ever present threat in all your shared spaces.
Suggested solutions:
- Leverage the current "hidden avatar" prisms to represent blocked/blocked by users (Red colored). No nameplate. Allow additional data (username) upon target.
- allow for blocked avatars to be toggled entirely hidden (clientside)
Additionally, with less priority:
- Have a UI element that shows users when there is a blocked user in their instance (especially an instance they're about to join).
Thank you -- I've seen it play out in others and i've experienced it myself. This platform has a moral obligation to do a better job at protecting it's community from the fractures that the current block system exacerbates by forcing an accidental spotlight on interpersonal trauma.
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Response to expected criticism:
I can imagine it scary to allow blocked users to know where you are -- you could imagine that they could use that information to disrupt your experience. I think this is solved with a clear stance in the community guidelines that circumventing a block to grief or disrupt a player is an unacceptable, bannable offense. It is a clear crossing of a known boundary.
Also since this is an only an issue with players established within communities, perhaps trust rank could change how a blocked user is handled (prism vs totally gone).
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Chirping_Cat
The block feature isn't meant to resolve severe interpersonal 'trauma'. That's what a counselor is for.
The block feature is, however, designed to deny the other party the knowledge that you're in the world, and to hide that person so you don't feel uncomfortable by their presence. Granted, it works best in Public instances where a diverse array of people are expected, where you're most likely hanging around different groups of people anyway. Public Worlds is where the feature is most often used. It sounds like you're using the feature in non-public instance types such as Friends/Invite, as a result of issues with people you know personally, and whilst this is valid, I'm not sure these changes can be implemented without weakening the feature's effectiveness in Public scenarios.
But that aside, I'm 99.95% sure that implementing this will just result in further social attention on blocked users in worlds, because both parties will be aware, and one party (Usually the blocked party) is bound to remark on the presence of the other party. ("Person X is in this world. They have me blocked. Why? I don't know, some petty drama." - We've all seen it, this feature will just make it worse.)
I'm also concerned that implementing this will just provide Trolls etc the knowledge that you're in the world where they otherwise wouldn't have it, and therefore end up enabling further problematic behavior. (Such as making spurious accusations about you to the people around you, because they now know you're there.)
I'm also not convinced that a quantifiable portion of the user base feels sick or needs to take a shower simply just because a "Blocked person accidentally stood where they stood in the Metaverse." - Even when it happens to me, it's fine, it happens. I don't feel my soul has been tainted. So I do think issues around negative feelings that some people feel about these occurrences, however valid, are best solved through professional help and not changes to features that have operated well-enough for many, many years.
Finally, on a side note, you shouldn't lecture others (No, not even VRChat) on 'moral obligations' because you're not the judge of moral obligations of others. When people try to claim a moral high ground it often makes them sound pretty arrogant or stupid, so leave that bit out next time yeah?
LoppyDaCutie
So basically prism and fully muted no interactions(no udon either due to some spam cases even when blocked just to crash the user who is doing the block, nothing) from the corresponding person, and there nameplate to be red to know if they have been blocked, just to make sure you know if your no clipping inside of them? did i get the correct?
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«Drena-Borg»
I think this would work best if it was a toggleable feature to know when you're Avatar box touches with an Avatar box that has been blocked which will allow you to move so you're not standing in someone that has been blocked.
ʙɪɢ․
While I don't necessarily agree with this exact implementation I do agree that VRChat could implement something to help mitigate situations like this. Blocking feels very different from normal socials on a platform like this and I think it needs to be accounted for.
Perhaps an optional notification upon joining that there's a blocked user in your instance, or listed on the instance details? Or maybe subtly warning you that you're standing too close to a blocked user, or talking over them? Without saying who it is of course. Something along those lines.
I think it'd be much more elegant for the VRChat team to explore ways of unintrusively warning the player situations like this might be about to happen rather than giving you the tools to watch out for it yourself.
While I understand the reasoning behind wanting to see the blocked user directly, I think this causes way too many possible ins for harassment that others have already pointed out. It just doesn't seem worth it to mess with the current blocking system considering you might as well just hide their avatar + mute them to get pretty much the same "partially blocked" result.
Aemeth
I understand what you're suggesting, but I think the changes would cause a LOT more harm than good.
You know who leaves blocked users as a floating shape? Horizon Worlds. You know what happens when a floating shape can see you just as you see them? They follow you around and harass you, and you can't stop them because you've already blocked them and it's the biggest thing you can do aside from filing a report (which takes time to process).
Edit to add: even if the blocked person couldn't see you and were just a shape, that can be abused. Imagine a bro who can't take no for an answer blocking you so you can't see him making rude gestures to your face or body, but everyone else can see it just fine.
Please, no. Do not implement this idea.
I've written safety guides about how to dodge around groups that tolerate an abusive person you've had to block. Ultimately, the answer is to leave the friend group if it's something that keeps happening and they're tolerating an abusive person you had to block. You can delay this for as long as you want, but it's the answer that's always left when there's nothing else to be done about it.
EDIT: the idea of implementing rank into a blocked result can easily be gamed for abuse. No to that as well. It does nothing but serve a hierarchy where players who have been around longer get preferential treatment.
Mr Game
I don't think it should change.
I have an idea
soft block (You can see the user, but the user can't see you)
hard block (Just the default what they have now)
RootVR
Mr Game "soft block (You can see the user, but the user can't see you)" - that would give whoever block an advantage to harass you.
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«Drena-Borg»
RootVR I agree imagine a harasser just blocks everyone with a script and then harasses each one of them by like grabbing objects in the world writing derogatory remarks around them talking bad and spreading lies to anyone that will listen around them just because they can't see them.
moonorama
I would rather not know a blocked user is in my instance. That kind of defeats the purpose of blocking. I want them to be out of sight and out of mind when I hit the button. Having an indicator would just make me nervous/anxious. Just my two cents.
SoftlySteph
moonorama The problem is they aren't "out of sight and out of mind" when you clip into eachother without knowing & bystanders get brought into your conflict. This is why it would be safer for you to have this feature. Ideally you could still opt out of seeing them at all.
Curious Cryptogenic
moonorama That's fine until you're standing inside each other and everyone is giving you funny looks and now you're told you're inside the person you blocked.
Enyaron
Kinda split on this, On one side I've seen a similar system which lets you view people who are blocked but they couldn't interact with you and it ended up being used heavily by trolls to harrass people and have them bring over their friends and encourage them to block/harrass you while your standing their minding your own bussiness. We've all been in the blackcat and blocked someone who was saying digusting things and then had them bring a freind over just too harrass you more on their behalf and this system would make it far worse than it already is.
On the other hand going to events where you need to sit down and having someone blocked and not being able to tell if a seat is open or not without having too ask someone on the table/sofa already is a basic task and shouldn't be that difficult. However I do admit that it is annoying to do so I can see why you'd want the system but I don't believe the benefits outweight the potential harrassment it could lead too.
The view point on "Circumventing" it in the guidelines would be not only be abused but it would be ignored the same way that people ignore harrassing others in it. The abused part would be heavily reporting someone simply informing the group that their is someone who has them blocked in the circle and potentially wondering why because they've never seen their name before and can be used in bad faith.
How would this work on one way blocks? If a random person has me blocked do I still see them as a triangle or am I just unknown too their existance?
SoftlySteph
Both sides of the block would see the triangle if they were near eachother in the same instance, but you ideally could make those triangles invisible clientside if they bother you. There'd be no way to make yourself entirely invisible.
ducc-
I really like this idea as a whole, a lot of the times is super awkward when a friend points out that I've been standing inside a blocked user for x amount of time. I prefer to keep people unblocked because of this but I also understand that some people have me blocked.
I think the the idea of being able to toggle on diamonds for blocked users with no information helpful in community places however I understand why this feature could not be implemented.
Would only the person who blocked have permission to see the diamond? Or would the blocked user also see the diamond of the person who blocked them?
If the latter, it would give toxic people more power to harrass if they can see where their are diamonds from people who have them blocked.
[ Also if you join an instance and click the the locations tab and scroll down you can see who you have blocked inside an instance ] But it's still awkward not knowing where tthey are standing. ]
RootVR
ducc- So no one will have the option to see the blocked individual as diamond, you already explained one reason of what can happen if that get implemented -> "it would give toxic people more power to harrass if they can see where their are diamonds from people who have them blocked."
RootVR
I'm all for keeping the current blocking system as it is.
I fail to see how it would be safer for anyone to leave individuals who have caused harm or annoyance to be unblocked. The essence of the existing blocking system is to prevent encounters between parties who wish to avoid each other.
Someone blocked someone for a reason, and even though people might feel annoyed when their friend has their friend blocked, at that point the person can hear both of the friends talk at the same time. I believe they should just talk to someone else in the instance or leave the instance after they found out that someone has blocked someone.
The current system is effective for me and I would assume for a lot of people because it allows me to avoid encountering individuals I'd rather not interact with or want to see, such as trolls, malicious users or individuals with whom I've had drama with and wish to never see again etc.
And if you dislike the current blocking system, then refrain from blocking individuals altogether. Instead, utilize the mute and hide avatar options that is already in the game. Although it's possible that others may have you blocked, it's essential to accept that some individuals may prefer not to see you at all.
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