Remove Stutter Step and Wall Climbing
complete
Mimi
Stutter stepping, gliding, "flying": pushing forward over and over to reset velocity while falling.
Wall climbing: jumping against a wall over and over to climb it. Usually used to enter unintended areas.
These are bugs that really hinder many world creators from making proper games, platforming puzzles, and so on, These are also pretty hard on controllers as well.
If a world creator wants you to get somewhere, they can make a teleport, or, include stairs. The kinds of worlds we can make are being limited by these bugs that should have been removed 2 years ago.
Also, I heard owlboy might add jumping to the pug if these are fixed ;)
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Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
complete
SDK3 now allows you to choose between "legacy locomotion" (which still has the stutter stepping and wall climbing bugs) and modern locomotion.
SDK2 will not get this change.
This change was made waaaaay back on 1 April 2020, when we released Udon.
ni1chigo2115
With this update, bunny hop is even more difficult and only possible on landing.
(Jumping at the same time as landing allows you to move while maintaining inertia. It was a technique that can be used when moving fast while PRONE, and Keep the RUN speed while facing the side)
There is also a characteristic that it is difficult to turn if you keep pushing forward to maintain inertia, so it was a mechanism that I personally liked, so it might raise some agenda at the same time as air control around in future requests. (It may be correct to control the movement completely with UDON.)
ElfMom
would probably be a better idea to make the legacy locomotion default and simply add the option for newer ones for use in things such as game maps.
I can already forsee tons of maps breaking with this change, especially older ones.
also I forsee a lot of maps becoming really really boring with the new and """improved""" stuff.
no more hanging out on the roof of a building instead of the intended areas, no more exploring maps not specifically designed for it.
let's patch the fun out of vrchat why don't we.
Ostinyo
ElfMom: Stutter-stepping will not be removed from old maps using SDK2. New maps made in SDK3 will use physically correct locomotion by default.
FurriestWolf
Didn't realize how bad the ability to fly around and climb walls in VR was until I started hearing my controllers creak.
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
in progress
In the current VRChat Open Beta, we've introduced the concept of "Legacy Locomotion".
We added in support for walk speed, run speed, jump, gravity, and "legacy locomotion" in PlayerAPI, accessible via Udon.
"Legacy Locomotion" is a term that defines if "stutter-stepping" and "wall climbing" is possible. Let's break this down:
- If you're using SDK2, "stutter-stepping" and "wall climbing" will always be on. Despite it being a bug, we didn't want to break worlds that rely on this behavior.
- If you're using SDK3, "stutter-stepping" and "wall climbing" is off by default. You must turn on "legacy locomotion" in the PlayerAPI via Udon if you want to enable those behaviors.
Ostinyo
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: Thank you so much!!!
rollthered
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: I can vibe with this! Good decision!!!
K
Kortir
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: I'll be honest, I'm against this. Largely taking from what others have said, but now 90% of people aren't even going to know this is an option and the actual movement that SHOULD be turned on isn't going to be. Removing a good deal of navigability to most maps because most world creators are NOT professionals, and so actually getting places on a lot of maps quickly and efficiently requires doing these things. If map creators didn't want people to use those techniques, there are relatively simple ways of preventing them. They're just being lazy.
100の人
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community: The documentation says NOT RECOMMENDED. What is an alternative API to provide "stutter-stepping" and "wall climbing" on the world side?
Tupper - VRChat Head of Community
100の人: There isn't one. We don't recommend the usage of legacy locomotion, but it is available.
ni1chigo2115
100の人: tupper is right about LEGACY LOCOMOTION, but it seems to me that there are many more attractive ways to move around now that various scripts have been created by UDON.
Rather than using legacy locomotion, which does not have a good feel when moving, I think it would be a better experience to look for a UDON script for the movement assistance system.
(like levitation, for example).
MrDummy_NL
Now latest games even NEEDS tricks to reach hard places, which is made on purpose. Especially Air walking is now more used in some puzzle and climbing worlds!!!
So you cannot nerf this air walking now, due many climbing worlds needs it.
Wing Blast
I honestly think through and through this is a 'not so good' idea. Let's look at your defenses;
"These are bugs that hinder many world creators from making proper games, platforming puzzles, and so on." First, please define PROPER. Judging with that word choice, you think that any world/game made with these bugs in mind and are fine with them aren't proper? Please explain this thought process, I think it's cool some people design around them, adds more depth to game design and thinking skills, regardless of bug or not.
Here's a weird comparison; The infamous 'Creeper' from the popular game Minecraft was made on accident via a bug, but look at it now, it's literally Minecraft's Icon, beloved by many.
Second, there aren't many world creators that use it and do well with it? If you're a good enough map creator, you can find easy workarounds for this. There are certain angles of walls that are impossible to 'Wall Climb' on, but they seem like perfectly normal walls. The 'float walk' would be harder to think for, but not impossible I imagine.
"If a world creator wants you to get somewhere, they can make a teleport, or, include stairs." This is the strong point for your defense, there are in fact some worlds that are designed
Exclusively
with these bugs in mind, but should said some spoil the whole bunch? Some creators have the idea of working hard towards something, like many real world game devs, some people aren't cut out for everything.Basically, why get rid of it for some when likely many more like/don't care if it stays or not? If you don't like it and find it hard on your controllers, don't hang around worlds that use it then, it's really that easy. I haven't seen many world personally that force it for progression through it. Don't think there aren't worlds who try and circumvent it.
rollthered
I'm against this as it might break flying avatars as well. There is give and take here which compromises other content creator's as well. If this were to be patched out and no longer worked with flying colliders on avatar's, then you would be taking away creative freedom from other content creators who make complicated flight systems for avatars.
rollthered
Just as so much as people use cheat code's in other game's to fly, I do not see it as an issue if someone want's to play the map as unintended. If there were later an update (Possibly Udon) where there would be point's systems for maps then I can start to agree with this post, but other than that it seems like it could be compromising existing workarounds for other cool stuff in game already. They would need to implement a component of sorts for new world's that are meant to have this fix if you want to make both side's happy. Or maybe it's not even directly related to how flying avatars work! Either way, there will have to be some more information from the Dev team. Might be possible without breaking other cool stuff.
Shelfen
rollthered: if you check a bit down in the posts i suggested modifiers on avatars you can activate or just passively have on all the time, based on avatars, like making a helicopter or a plane you can set the avatar modifier to flying (suggested modifiers: Flying, Speed, Gravity), and essentially have an avatar that can fly normally, and have maps that are able to turn off avatar modifiers such that you can fix this problem and add functionality to both sides, perfect for everyone.
GearBell
im against this as well. one of the joys of exploring maps is climbing. granted, i hate injuring my controllers with spamming the jump button, but unless they come up with a real climbing mechanic that applies automatically to all maps, Id rather keep our crunchy climbing abilities for now. if anything perhaps a new sdk plugin that you can add a "nonclimbing" component to map models?
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